本字幕由TME AI技术生成 welcomebacklistenersersreretaanotherdeepepveve todayandthistimeweregoingdowntherabbitholeliterallywithelseandelseisadvenventuinwwonderland oh excellentchoice yes specificallywerefocusingonchaptersixpigonpepper oh pigonpepperaclassicpipigmewn youknowthelightfulobsurditythatleouiskirluhissowellknownforiknowrightandimimalreadyintreedbecauseyouknowweencounterAAfishfootman afishfootmanorightofftherightoneofthebest yeahlikewerebarelyapageintothechapter andrealitiesalreadygettingwellaprettygoodcake exactlylikerightawaywegetthesceneuhwiththetwofemine rightonesafish theothersoffrog andtheyredeliveringthisinvitation andits itssuchagreatexampleofuhhowinwonderland thereare therearenolimits anythingispossible absolutely butwhatssointerestingtomeishowalicejustyouknowkindoftakesitallinstride yeah she shereallydoes anditmakesmewonder youknowasareerameshejustdreaming or orhassheliketrulysteppedintothisworld wherelogichasnopowerrightyeah whatdoyou whatdoyouthink whatdoyouthink thinkmamakeslilisters ersfeelanalyssacceptanceoftheseauditiesmakeyouthelistenermoreintriguedorHAlittleuneasy oh thatssuchagoodquestion its itshardtosayforsure youknowontheonehand itsalmostaffeitbleheropenmindness rightlikeshejustdoesntquestiontheimpossibleshe shejustsimplyacceptitbutaspartofthis thisnewreality butontheotherhand youdohavetowonderaboutherstateofmind rightitsthisisthisahealth theadaptability orthisis isasign thatsheskindoflosinghergripon onreality wowthatsareallygoodpoint its itslikethatlinebetweensantityandman thisis issoblurred absolutely andit itseemslikeatheme thatsgoingtokeeppopinup oh yeah definitely itdefinitely itbefineseven evenmoreprounounced oh ah ahenterstheduchechesshouse ithinkyouknow 是的 是的 这个这个 个个这的这个 karldescribes thatseemssovividly heslikeahyouknowthecookwasleaningoverthefire stiringalargeculdrin whichseemtobefullofsoup rightokay ok butthenheaddsyouknowkindofcasuallyally yes itwascertainlytoomuchpepperinitforalltheairwasfullofsmoke anditmadeeveryonssnezeaccepttheduchessandthebaby itssoweird rightlikehesetsupthisseeminglynormalkitchenseam yes anditjustthrowsinthis itsreallystrangedetailaboutyouknowthepepapaper yeah anditslikeitsafffectingeveryonebuttheduchess and andits itsfunny itsstrange butitsalsojustkindoflikeoddlyunsettlingallsametime oh yeah andthereare therearesomanywaysyoucouldinterpretthisuhthiswholechaoticscene rightsomepeopletheyseeitasasattireofavictorianfamilylife okwithallthoseyouknowstrictsocialcodesandanoftenstifflingatmosphere andthenothersseeitasasmoretherepresentationofjustthetheturmoilchildhood rightthose thosepredicictableemotionsincensoryoverloaditstrue yeah soitreallymakesyouwonder youknowwhatiskiral tryingtosayabouttheworld theworldoutsideofwonderland whatyouyeah its itsagoodquestion andmaybeitsbothrightlikemaybehessuggestingthateveninthemostordinarysettings theresthiselementof ofabsurdity justlurkingbeneaththesurfaceouttotally right totally and andmaybeyouknowmaybenalittlebit thatthatwonderlineperspective thatthatwillingtotojustkindofembracetheological andwhatweneedtonavigateour ourownlives thecomplexxtiveofour ourlives becausethatsagoodpoint yeahlikeyouknowasurvivaltacticalmostwonderlyperspective yeahlikeyouarollthepunchchrollwhatthepunchisexactly becausewhoknowswhatscomingnextwhoknowsthatsthebeautyofitrightandspeakingofembrrasingideological letstalkaboutthecheshurecat oh yeah righthe heappearstoalice whileshesintheduchess hiskitchen youknowjustsittingthereonthehearuhgreiningfromyeartoearthatgrin thoughimeancomeonthatgrin its itsgoingtobeoneofthemosticonicumimagesfromthewholebookfuurefuturelikeitssoplayfulandunnervingatthesametime andthefactthatitcan itcanexistindependentlyofthecathimselfjustmakesituhwellthatmuchweirder yeahmakesmethinkabouthowcareolusesthisgrintoreallyplaywiththeideaof ofhumor itselfyouknowyeahlikehumorcanbeasourceofjoyofconnection butitcanalso alsobeusedtomomokalittleoreventhreatenabsolutely andthecheasureercatscenenjustinbodiesthatdoality itdoeslikeitsamusing butitsalsolikealittleminiicing yeahtheresdefinitelylikeadarksidetoit yeahthereis anditsunsettling howhe hejuststartstodisappearrightanditsjustthegreenthatlingerers yeahlikeagattofahaveajoke thatsgonetoofaryouknowyoujustyoureleftfeelingumkindofuneasy evenafteryouknow afterthepunchline iknow exactlyitslikeitmakesyouwonderaboutthenatureofhumor rightahwhatmakessomethingfunny andwhenishumoracrossthatunnsomething somethingalittlebitmoredisturbing yeah thatsagoodquestiontothinkaboutwhatdoyouthink listeners yeah whatdoyouthink letusknowyeah whatdoeshappenthecomments yeah butyeah andithinkitsimportant remembertothatchurch yourcat youknowhesnotjusttherefor forlaughsrightlikehealsoactsaguide aguy yeah foralicewellsortofhehesh hedefinitelytelyuhhreliableone heisnotimean hegivesherdirections hetellsherthateveryoneinwonderderlandismad andhepopsupagainlater youknowjustlikejusttomakesure sheheardhim correctlyyeah its itslikehesdeliberatelytryingtoconfuseher hes hesmemessingwithher yeah heis butitsanhethatstantmanipullarzationofexpectations andthatbluringofthelinesbetweenwhats whatsreal andwhatsnot yes thatmakeswonderlandsosocaptivating butalsosodisorientingatthesametime itstrue itslikebeingonarollercoaster youknowyoure yourthrilledinyourterrifer youare butyoujustjustcanhelp butlikeyeahholdonancy whathappensnowyeah yeah exactly whichbringsthistoanother ahithinkpivotalscene 嘘 thetransformationoftheduchesssbabyintoapig oh yes thepigbaby pigbabyaclassic itssosobizarre yeah andaliceinhertypicalfashion justkindofliketakesitallinstryrightshoesus sheeventriesthereasonwithitatfirstiknow ifsheshavingaseriousconversationwithapig yeah yeahlikeifyouregoingtoturnintoapig mydear shesaysofnothingmoretodowithyou butthenshepicksitup shedoesandcarriesitoffintothewoods likeitsnobigdeal itsnobigbigdeal yeah anditjusthighlightsher herpragmatism youknow yeah likesherecognizesthatitsanabsurdsituation butshe shecepcepts andsheadaptsherbehavior yeah ah ahah shes shesgoingwith withflow shessonewiththeflow absolutely shes sheslearningtonavigatewderderandshonown ownterms yeshes sheslettinggo ofallofherpreconcsivenotionsabouthowtheworld howtheworldshouldwork exactly exactly andwhatwhatsheealeevolving right oh forsure fromthestart shesconfused vewillscared butasshekeepsencounteringtheseologicalevents shebecomesmoreconfident morewillingtoembrace youknowtheunknown yeah itslikewitheveryumh everynonsensicalencounter she sheshedalittlebit ofher ofheroldwayofthinking yeah youknow andand embraces uhembracestheoneoflandwayyeah andits itsoneofthemostpowerfulmessagesofthestory anything itsgorderlandisntjustthisnonsicallecape itsits itslikeameter for for forthechallenges theuncertaintiesthatwefaceininreallife right andandherjurtyteachesussaidthatsometimesthebestwaytonavigatethosechallengesisto tojustletgo of ofourneedforlogcandcontrol andjustembracetheabsurity ityofallitslikesometimesyoujustgotasurrendertothemadness surrendertothemadnesslego andenjoytheride and andithinkthatisntreallywellwiththecheshuecatsline thatfamouslinewereallmadhere oh absolutelythatlineimeanits itssoofteninterpretedasuhascecelebraofindividudualityandarejectionof ofsocietalnorms butit butitcanalsobeseenasAArecognition thatlifeitselfisitsinherentlyendeavor ahah yeah andthattryingtomakesenseofitallits itskindofafutualendeavor yeslikemaybeitsnotaboutfindingtheanswers but butlearningto tojustlivewiththequestion oh ilikethatyeitsnotaboutthedestination itsabouttheuryjourney theourney and andofthecrazyunexpectedturns ittakesyes exactly andonthatnowweregoingtakealittlebreak alittlebreak bloodwillberightbacktocontinue ourdeepdivehaschaactersixofaliceisatventuresinwonderland dontgoaway souhweleftoffwithaliceatabitofacrossros didntweyeahfacedwiththischoicebetweentwopaths srighthals yeah eachoneleadingtoacharacter thatuhthatthecheshurecathasdeemedmad itslikea itslikeshescaughtthisgame yeah wheretherulesareconstantlychanging and andnooneseemstohavelikeAAclearmap youknowit itreallydoesmakemethinkabouthowofteneven evenquququtedtherealworld right rightweencountersitsituations whereabsolutelywe wetomake makedecidecision andeachoptionjustseemsequallyperplexingyestotally itslike itslikethosewouldyouratherquestions youknowtheyseemallfuningames untilyoureallystarttowait the theconsequences yeah thebizarreconsequenthebizarreconsequences exactly but butyetbacktoalyysdilemawhichpathwouldyouchooseIIdontknowthe thecheasurecatisnotexactlyareliablesourceofinformation hesnoteasy noimeanthelasttimewesawhim hewasdisappearingpeacebypeace leavingjustthatthatmissteviousgrain immssieviousgrainhangingintheair likeseelater yeah yeah his hiswholeapproachtoconversationislike oh oh its itsa itsalittlewrappedinajoke emergedinapoolofnonsense butyouknow maybethatspartofhisappealrightoh yeah hechallengesusto toquestioneverything youknowevenourownperceptionsofareality yeah andthatthatmakesmethinkabouthowoftenin inthe the the thattocalledrealworld umweencounterthings thatthatjustifylogiicalexplanation oh yeah absolutelylikethinkaboutthosemoments umyouknowwhenyouvemisplacesomethingthatyouwerejustholdingyes oryouwalkintoaroom youcompletelyforgetwhyyouwinyesallthetimelikealotofglitchesinoureverydaylives youknowyesahthatmakeusfeellikewevesteppedintoourownlittlepersonalwonderland exactly exactlyliketheuniverseofplayingacosmicjokeonus oh forsuremindingusthat thatwerenotalwaysincontrol wearenotrightno wearenotincontrol andmaybe justmaybe yeah theresAAlessontobelearnedin inthosemomentsofdisoriorientation hmaybe whatdoyouthinkithinksoyeah likeahmaybeitsaremindertonottakeourselvestooseriouslyrighttoembracetheunexpected and and andfind findhumorintheabsurtaity ityof ofitallfindthehumor yeah becauseattheendofthedaily asasthetreasurecatssoeluqutlyputsitwereallmadhere wereallmadhere andmyaswhattoembraceitrightrightmyaswellyeahandspeakofbadcharacters youknowaliceisumshesabouttometwoofwonderldsuhamosticonicresident oh yes themadhatterinthemarchair themadhatterinthemarchair uhitsitsteparparty oh mygosh theirteapartyisuhwhatitsoneofthemostfamousscenesin inallofliterature ithinksorightitsthis itsthisworldwindofofnonsensicalconversations rightitsknowbrokenclocksandconstantlyshiftingplacesatthetable rightandyouknow andithinkitsasmuchaboutthesubversionof ofsocialnormsasitisaboutyouknowjustanonsensicalconversation rightjustimagineateaparty wheretimestandsitandriitlesreplacedpleasanttreesandtheguessjustconstantlyswitchplaceswithoutacat for foradequate itsits itschaos disdisguisedashasciviiliitreallyis andthatswhatmakesissofascinating youknowitslikeacarolisholdingupamirrortoourownsocialrituals yesandwereseeingthemreflectedbackinthis inthislikedistortedbutoddlyrevealingway oh ilovethat thats thatsagreatwaytoputitandyouknow ithinkkirllthroughifthroughthemadhaderinthemarchair hes heskindofaskingusyouknowlikewhatsthepointofalltheserules concontions tions iftheyactuallytuallyveus whatifinsteadofclaningtotheseyoutheseoutdatedtraditions we weembracedamoreumamorefluid morespontain yes wayof ofbeing itsa itsareallygoodquestion andinonethatelseisreallycrapplingwithifshe shetriestomakesenseofitallumyouknow andithinkwecanallrelatetothatfeelingrightofbeingtheoddoneoutyeah otototyeahthosemoments whereyouyoufeellikeyouremissingthepunchline yeah haveajokethatthateveryoneelseseemstogetyeah exactyeah andthatspreciselythekindofdiscomfort thatcarolcapturessobrilantlyithinkithisinhinthisteapartyscene rightitslikeitsaremind thatthateveninthemostuhseeminglycivilizedsettings theresalways theresalwaysisundercurrentofofobsurdity youknowyeah theres andmaybethatsthekeyto tosurguringthosesituations yeahliketorecognizetheobsurdity andliketothehumorinthe theunexpected and andtojustnottakeourselvestooserious yeahjustjustrollwiththem belikealice youknow belikealice shesfiguringitout shesfiguringitout sowecantto rightshecanttoexactlyleftaliceofthemadhatsteaparty whodidyeahabouttoenterthisworldwindofyouknownonsensicalconversationandbrokenclock imeanreallyiswehavethemostfamousscenesinallofliteraturerightthisteapartyofficerwhatdoyouthinkmakesitso socaptivating wellithinktheressomethingaboutthewaykolljustyouknow completelyturnsourexpectationsofatraditionalteaparty upsidedownlikeyouhavetheseuhtheseverypropersocialritualsassociatedwithteatime youknowthefinechina thepoliteconversation butthenyouthrowinthese thesemadcharactersthathadterthemarchachairtimeismeaninglesseveryonsspoutingriitdlesandnonsenseits itsotherchaos buttheresthis thisbrainsortofordertoittoo youknowrighttheyhavetheirowninternallogic thataliceistryingtofigureout yeah yeah anditmakesmethinkabouthowoftenwetrytomakesenseofsituations thatjustdont dontfollowanysortofoflogicalrules oh absolutelylikewereconstantlytryingtoimposeorderonaworld thatisisinherentlychaoic yeah andithinkkrerelis ispokenfunaboutalittlebit ithinksotoowiththisteaparty hesshowinguscontrotimesitsokaytojustletgoofourneedforlogicandcontrolumandjustembracethemadness embracethemadness yeah youknow maybe maybetheresevenacertainfreedominthatHIthinksoyeahlikeonceyouacceptthatyoucantmakesenseofeverything youcanjustrelaxandenjoytheright theright exactlyitslikeuh itslikealicetheteaparty youknowatfirstshesfrustrated shestryingyingfollowlowtherules ah ah shemustunderstand exactlybuteventually shejustkindofsurrenderstotheobsurityofitallshedoes sheandithinkthatsareallyvaluablelessonforallofus exactly andithinkitspeakstothis this thislargerthingwevebeentalkingaboutruabouteembracingtheologicalquestioningourassumptions challengingourperceptionsofreality yeahand andyouknow findingthewonderanddelightintheeverydayabsurtatiesoflife becauseletsbehonestlifecanbeprettyabsurdsometimesthenahifwecanlearntoseeitthrough throughalysieyeahandsensensecurcurioity ityandawillnessnesstojustyouknowgowiththelowlowyeyeah thenybebewecanactuallyenjoytherightalittlebitmoreithinksosotoourlistenersersouttherethenexttimeyoufindyourselfinthesituation thatjustdoesntmakesenseright rememberalice rememberaliceeembacacetheabsurdityquestioneverything anddontbeafraidtogrinlikethecheshururecat exactlywellthataboutwrapsupourdeepdiveintopegonpepper itdoes andwhatajourneyitsbeen wehopeyouenjoyedit andbesuretojointhisnexttimeforanotheradventuredowntherabbitholeofliterature